Management Buck?

[grassi25]

I don't know if you guys remember my trail cam pic called Hope its not a six. But He is.

I have studied alot on deer management and seen alot of what they do in Texas concerning management bucks. This buck was 190lbs and 3 years old and didn't grow any brow tines. He had a little sticker where one should be. But in my opinion, though his genes look good other than no brows, that this is a genetic trait. I can see the genetics on my property most prominently by looking at bucks brow tines.

Weigh in on what you think. I don't mind any criticism.

[allhunter]

i think i have the same problem but seeing that bucks bigger then any i have ever shot id shoot him. from a genetics point i would as well tho. maybe you have a young hunter who you could bring out and try and get him. that way you dont use your tag on a smaller deer and make another kids day buy getting him a nice buck

[dagr8bilster]

I've noticed that the missing brow tine issue most likely IS a gentic trait. I work on Fripp island where the deer population is VERY limited in the breeding pool and there seems to be a couple of groups within the population that typically stay in certain portions of the island. Certain groups DO NOT have brow tines and other groups do.

Typically brow tines show up the first year as little nubs but almost always by the 3rd I would say based on my experience and sightings. To have a big 6 like that without them definately supports the genetics issue regarding brow tines.

Here's an excerpt from a post I found relating to brow tines...

Yes, antler characteristics are genetically linked and highly heritable. To back up this claim, I will cite some long-term data collected from the Texas’ Kerr Wildlife Management Area.

From 1974 to 1997, this research facility was involved in a number of studies designed to determine the role of nutrition and genetics in white-tailed deer antler development. During each of various studies that took place over that time, researchers recorded antler information for individual bucks throughout that 23 year period. This wealth of data allowed biologists to back-track 217 bucks from yearlings (1 1/2) to 3 1/2 years of age and 168 bucks until they were 4 1/2 years old. So what did they find?

In short, data from 385 bucks found that 90% of the bucks without brow tines at 3 1/2 and 4 1/2 years of age were spikes as yearlings (1 1/2 years old). All bucks without brow tines at 1 1/2 years old lacked brow tines at 4 1/2 years old. On the other hand, all bucks with 5 or more points as yearlings had both brow tines at maturity. Bucks that had both brow tines as yearlings had both brow tines at 3 1/2 and 4 1/2 years of age.

The only way to improve antler quality and reverse missing brow tines is to put pressure on spikes and bucks without brow tines, regardless of age. Your deer management practices should also include rolling over the doe herd to reduce the number of old does sired by bucks lacking brow tines.

[passinthru]

I think he was a good management buck. As for what dag posted i still would not shoot spikes. That is the old school of buck management unless the deer is older 2.5. I would be looking to take out any odd or brow tine less buck and some does of your ratio is outta wack.

[3212]

I hunt free range deer in southcentral pennsylvania. In 1991 I shot a buck with 15 inch main beams very thick with a 12 inch inside spread. It had 2 points,3inch and 4inch ,4 inches above the base and some palmation near the tips, that was it. Two years ago another hunter shot his twin in the same area.

[allhunter]

Nov 2, 2010 9:26:32 GMT -5 3212 said:

I hunt free range deer in southcentral pennsylvania. In 1991 I shot a buck with 15 inch main beams very thick with a 12 inch inside spread. It had 2 points,3inch and 4inch ,4 inches above the base and some palmation near the tips, that was it. Two years ago another hunter shot his twin in the same area.[/quote


lets see some pics sounds interesting

[grassi25]

That is an interesting articel Dag. That is what I figured. We havent seen many mature bucks without brows but have a ton of spikes, most are small 6 months to a year old. I do encourage a few of our guys that havent killed many deer and have itchy trigger fingers to shoot a spike if they really wanna shoot something. Ofcourse we have tons of bucks, I am tempted to say we have a 2 buck to 1 doe ratio. I know it sounds crazy but I think it is true. I am really wanting to take some pressure off the does this year, after all they will be the ones to bring the big boy out.

But I do think you can't tell if a spike is a cull unless it is atleast 2.5 years old.
One of my dad's friends who hasn't killed but a handful of deer has killed 2 spikes. I was ok with one, I told him he can't shoot anymore bucks now and he got pissed. But the truth is he can't legally shoot anymore anyway. In fact in Ga. one of your 2 bucks is supposed to have atleast 4 pts on one side.

Turns out the second spike he shot may have been a cull. It was 130 lbs with 8 inch spikes straight up. But the first one he shot was 70 lbs with 5 inch spikes that curled out wide.

[3212]

Nov 2, 2010 15:18:48 GMT -5 allhunter said:

Nov 2, 2010 9:26:32 GMT -5 3212 said:

I hunt free range deer in southcentral pennsylvania. In 1991 I shot a buck with 15 inch main beams very thick with a 12 inch inside spread. It had 2 points,3inch and 4inch ,4 inches above the base and some palmation near the tips, that was it. Two years ago another hunter shot his twin in the same area.[/quote


lets see some pics sounds interesting

I have two pictures from '91,I'm not set up to post pictures on the net.

[dagr8bilster]

Regarding the article and some more thinking on it. Since antler growth has been found to be genetically linked...culling spikes that are narrow or very long seem like a good idea. I think that culling bucks that are obviously lop sided such as a spike and 4 pt or fork and 4 pt might need to go also.
I think though the bottom line is that you need to set a club goal or rule set so that your members have the best possible chance of growing and taking top scoring bucks.
Since we know that a good score comes from both mass, spread, and points...then EVERY buck that does't show promise in most of those catagories needs to go. Once you've determined that your buck population has most of those desireable antler traits then you'll probably start seeing more trophy bucks on your club.

[allhunter]

Nov 3, 2010 22:05:59 GMT -5 dagr8bilster said:

Regarding the article and some more thinking on it. Since antler growth has been found to be genetically linked...culling spikes that are narrow or very long seem like a good idea. I think that culling bucks that are obviously lop sided such as a spike and 4 pt or fork and 4 pt might need to go also.
I think though the bottom line is that you need to set a club goal or rule set so that your members have the best possible chance of growing and taking top scoring bucks.
Since we know that a good score comes from both mass, spread, and points...then EVERY buck that does't show promise in most of those catagories needs to go. Once you've determined that your buck population has most of those desireable antler traits then you'll probably start seeing more trophy bucks on your club.

I would agree but what happens when you can shoot only 1 or 2 bucks a year. then every year your shooting cull bucks and never have a chance at a trophy. i see how this would work down south but it would be very hard up here with not so liberal bagging limits

[grassi25]

Allhunter the answer to your question would be to bring guest and tell them what to shoot.

My only other thought on the spikes and fork horns would be that, we ahve always had an abundance of young spikes and forkhorns, but this is the first mature buck we have seen with any type of flaw.

Which leads me to believe that most of these small bucks, (spikes and fork horns) are developing just fine.

[dagr8bilster]

Allhunter I'm not up to date with the rules and regs of up North and honestly havn't heard of actual Trophy Deer hunting Clubs up there either but I'm pretty sure that the clubs get around the 1-2 buck rule and still manage their herd for Trophy Bucks somehow. I know that down here they don't allow meat hunters but maybe up there they do to help get around the 1-2 buck limit rule. Check into it and let us know.

Grassi when ever you need someone to come help cull some deer(ie a guest) let me know. I'll make the drive and bring som ammo.

[grassi25]

Dag may decide to shoot everything we see by the end of the season, so get your ammo ready. We are still gonna try to shoot one of those big bucks till thanksgiving, but if we decide not to stay there. It is on!!!!!